Whether you have to prime first and which primer to use can not only make a big difference in your paint job, but also in how long it lasts. Some masonry surfaces can have a high pH level which will cause adhesion problems if you apply paint directly to the surface. In most cases, after applying an epoxy primer, you have a seven-day window to paint over it, apply a topcoat, or anything else you are interested in. Not necessarily. Make sure to remove and treat any corrosion before applying primer. You would be wise to apply epoxy primer to bare metal (once the old paint and any rust has been removed) before you would apply any other product. Figuring which marine primer to use depends on the topside paint you're using, the substrate material, and, sometimes, the condition of that substrate. Most sealers give you the option of a "wet on wet" (or very close to it) or a full "barrier coat" application. Just be sure that you have property and carefully sanded the car, before using your primer. The metal prep will take care of that and etch the surface, ready for epoxy. Epoxy primers offer excellent adhesion to metal and serve as a perfect base for additional undercoat . "Urethanes don't like the alkalinity of the concrete, so they repel it," says Pachade. On a hot and dry day, or if you're lucky enough to have an automotive oven, this can take as little as thirty minutes. For a trailered boat, what you have will work. It will only grow. Allow the paint to dry thoroughly between coats. 2. Now that you have decided what sealer to use you have to decide on what application. Final sanding of the finish primer should be done with 320- to 400-grit sandpaper. We have been receiving a-lot of inquiries surrounding the topic of whether to use a primer for your concrete surface. Our primer paint works great over freshly sand blasted metal, body filler, on fiberglass, and will fill minor scores and surface imperfections. As urethane is only a primer surface, you will also need to apply a sealer before painting. This means that primer enables a bond between the surface underneath it and the paint that will be sprayed on top. That means I'm doing a final sanding with 400 or 600 wet. We have started using soda blasting. An epoxy primer serves a different purpose to an epoxy sealer and if you're not careful making that distinction it could come back to bite you. Subsequently, question is, can you paint over epoxy primer? But on a cold or humid day, it can take up to two or three hours. If you spray your basecoat within an hour, you should be OK. They dry faster and sand easier than epoxies. (Q) Do I have to apply a primer before using this paint? 2K is some what of a barrier but not as good as epoxy nor does it stick as well. very clean!! Do not use a metal prep AND a self etching primer though. A flat black rattle can works to in a pinch. I have been using the epoxy before basecoat without making it a sealer and then wet sanding it with the 400. So, provided it is hard and will take a light abrasion you should be OK. Make sure you wash the surface well before applying the primer. Urethane or waterborne sealers can fill P400 scratches or finer. Once cured, epoxy primer can no long form a suitable CHEMICAL bond with additional coats of paint. Scuff Meister Every paint manufacturer has their own recommendations on what you can do and what you can't do. Epoxies don't stick will to metal or plastic, Bonding Primer solves that issue. Primer should also be sanded before the paint goes on the wall; for a top-notch job, sand between paint coats, too. If you need to use any fillers like Bondo, apply the fillers before you apply your primer. Thanks Barry. Dec 3, 2021. 6) Paint clearcoat if applicable Epoxy Primer Epoxy primer works slightly differently, gaining adhesion to the metal surface by sticking to it like glue, rather than etching on to the surface. Apply 1-2 coats of primer if you have rough or weathered fiberglass before you paint it. This will set you up for success so that you don't have to do a freakin' bajillion (give or take 6-8) coats of paint. After 7 days they recommend you use this new fangled gadget called a scuff pad to abrade the . And you'll be breaking through the epoxy primer when you block, that's actually what you look for initially. Mixed Surfaces - Some primers and coatings need the entire surface to be uniform and all the same material.Epoxy primers have excellent adhesion properties and will stick to bare metal, paints, primers and fillers. The most common finishes over epoxy are paint or varnish. Every body shop has its own way of doing things so I did some research, to see if I could set matters straight. 3. High build Primer will be used after filler work or during it. Since this is a ready-to-use primer, all you need to do is activate, shake and spray. It can withstand corrosive conditions, chemicals, rust and salt. Preparation for the final finish is just as important as it is for recoating with epoxy. There are two main varieties of primer, much like paint. Some fiberglass is rough and you will need to sand it down and prime it before you paint it. Pause to shake the can at regular intervals during painting. I use the Epoxy to be my only primer many times. If you spray your basecoat within an hour, you should be OK. And I would use a 2k filler primer instead of an epoxy. They also can aid in corrosion protection/prevention. Do You Need Primer For Vht Engine Paint? Oct 28, 2013. For example, you can spray epoxy primer onto a surface that's been sanded down to bare metal, repaired with body filler, and then feathered into the original paint. As mentioned, this is to help the paint bond to the surface. Most not all epoxy primers have a recoat time of 7 days. Do you guys usually use sealer over 2K primer surfacer? Coat the bare metal surface, including any overlaps, with weld-through primer. Epoxy primer is (basically) made of an . It's a workout area and gets a lot of use. It is important that you ask your paint supplier or read the specs on your sealer as many are different but a rule of thumb that I use is between 30 minutes and an hour. Apply the paint at the recommended spraying distance, alternating between moving the can from left to right and up and down. But do not paint the wall . Unless you only have a few minor issues to fix, it's challenging for us do-it-yourselfers to carve out enough time to strip the old paint to bare metal, do the repairs, apply bondo and then spray a layer of self-etching primer before surface rust begins to form on the body. Yes, you can use ArtResin epoxy resin over oil paint once it has dried thoroughly. People who are about to paint a fiberglass boat are probably wondering . I choose to do it so that the paint wouldn't peel/chip as easily. If the sanded surface looks glossy at all (sanded with 800/1000 and above) you wont get adequate adhesion and the paint will not stick. Then clean with soap and water. Priming and Sanding Walls Before Painting Primer fills in spongelike pores and creates an even, solid base that takes paint well. Let the primer cure thoroughly before welding to ensure the . Bondo before. Before applying a new coat of epoxy primer or the color coats, the underlying primer coat must be fully dry. Otherwise, there is no real need for you to do so. The "other" type of bond is mechanical. You could use an epoxy primer for its reliable robustness, as a garage floor is such a hard-working area. Most 2 part paints bond very well to unprimed gel coat, I've never had bonding issues (25+years) when not using a primer on gel coat. It will save you at least one coat of paint later on.) You'll find bonding primers in acrylic, epoxy and polyurethane composition. A quality masonry primer will allow you to safely paint over a wider range of pH levels without risk of adhesion . Cigarette smoke and other strong odors can still be left lingering after repainting. While not all have this, some metal primers are made for use with particular paints. Read until the end for the top mistakes to avoid. They are often recoated with urethane primer or sealer before top coating. Again, a coat of epoxy primer over the top will serve the purpose. Primer-sealer is usually designed to be applied immediately before the base coat, and not sanded. Remember, let the primer surfacer dry! According to DuPont production shop recommendations: Sand it, etch prime bare metal and/or filler work, urethane primer, seal with epoxy if desired, base coat, clear coat. High build primer surfacer 4. then paint and clear. If using Rust-Oleum Universal there is no need to use a primer. PPG Deltron Basecoat Urethane was used without a primer. I have been doing that for the last 10 years. If you're going with regular automotive paint, I'd use epoxy primer first over a properly CLEAN surface. If you wait too long, you will have to use a scuffy pad to rub the surface before applying the paint. Next car I paint I won't use 2k primer, just epoxy. For example, brand new drywall is a very porous material. You want your paint to be strong and adhere well to the surface below it, so you should always apply a coat of primer before you paint, correct? It will fully bond to and seal in any dry oil painting. new trucks. You should go with epoxy, but if you're going to be 240 grit, all of your paint, then I would put two medium to heavy coats of 2k filler primer on it and block it down with 400 grit sandpaper. Masonry Primer. Filler primer paints are basically formulated to fill in any pits in the surface from sanding or rust even quicker than an epoxy primer alone. I like to use a metal prep, but if the metal is clean, it isn't necessary. Just remember, you have one chance when you are painting a car, or you will have to do it over again! 2k IMO is just for blocking. Filler primer paints are basically formulated to fill in any pits in the surface from sanding or rust even quicker than an epoxy primer alone. The fact is, primers won't always be suitable for sealing and sealers won't always be suitable for priming. #4. hit the bare spots with some self-etching rattlecan primer, and you should be good. ------------------. Do you need to prime epoxy before painting? Painting Your Fiberglass Sections. If you're planning to paint your cabinets, you need to use the right primer. Apply body filler during the recoat period. You normally do not need an epoxy between your filler and 2k primer, but since it is going to be sitting for a while I think it would be a great idea. If you are painting the hull, and this boat is left in the water for long periods of time, you might want to use a paint and primer designed for that purpose. People use epoxy and other primers in different ways. After finishing with P600 grit or finer, you're ready for . That being said, some paint manufacturers do not always require a primer, so always read carefully, because you may be . I wasn't impressed with 2k primer, it was hard to spray. A filler primer paints are formulated to fill in any pits on the surface from sanding or rust, as opposed to an epoxy primer alone, which is only effective when applied to the surface. Alternatively, you can apply filler or primer surfacer over the epoxy to fill any minor imperfections and block flat before you paint. Not sure if they have it for concrete paint though. Trust me. For the best results when using a weld-thru primer: The area to be welded should be thoroughly clean, bare metal. Additional things to consider is their are different types of primer. Oil stop primers, moisture block primers and just ordinary day in and day out primers. Stacking Coatings — Since epoxy primers adhere mechanically, they will grab onto most anything that has a good texture to the surface. Autobody filler is (basically) made of a vinyl ester or a polyester type resin. Again, a coat of epoxy primer over the top will serve the purpose. Always prime your walls before painting if the surface is porous. Secondly, how long can primer sit before painting? You do not usually need to prime fiberglass before you paint it because it is already smooth. The difference being with "wet on wet" the sealer is applied and then allowed a short flash time before the basecoat or SS is applied. Use self-etching primer on bare metal. Since urethane is only a primer surfacer, you'll also need to apply a sealer before you paint. However, if the metal was stripped, then sat for a while, it is likely that very light surface rust may have formed that is tough to see. Prep the engine before painting by using a solvent to clean all oil and silicone residue. But before that 7 day time frame you dont need to scuff it. It is important that you ask your paint supplier or read the specs on your sealer as many are different but a rule of thumb that I use is between 30 minutes and an hour. Primer is absolutely necessary underneath both types of paint even if the metal is already protected. Without it, your epoxy system will not work as well no matter what type of epoxy you are applying. 1K Wax & Grease Remover. I haven't had any problems. You dont have to sand the epoxy (which sands like crap once it is hard) if you get right on it with 2k (within 8 hours). It is also recommended to coat the top with epoxy primer. PRIMER may not be applied to VHT Roll Bar Paint. If the surface is porous. PPG Deltron Basecoat Urethane was used without a primer. That is why i did not suggest a time. Then scuff the epoxy primer before applying the primer surfacer. They said that you can paint over the epoxy, but best results would be with a sealer. Remove any paint or protective coatings, clean the surface with a solvent and sand lightly. 1. Since urethane is only a primer surfacer, you'll also need to apply a sealer before you paint. In this article, I will go over the use cases of topcoats and primers, when to use them, and what they actually do to protect your paint job. Realize why you have to scuff it at all and it may become more clear what you should use because you just got 3 different opinions/techniques from 4 different people. It is preferable to apply a two-part epoxy primer prior to painting your fiberglass parts. Most latex primers dry to the touch within 30 minutes to 1 hour. Primers are designed primarily to promote adhesion for the topcoat to the surface, not just for hiding the surface with a consistent color. After sanding, wipe off the residue. They recommend a sealer over the epoxy before the paint. On the other hand, you also have oil-based primers, and these can be a bit more challenging to work with, especially since they can take up to 24hrs to fully dry. Don't apply too much primer surfacer too fast as thick coats trap solvent and can cause shrinkage. Some fiberglass is rough and you will need to sand it down and prime it before you paint it. It has lasted very well. Primer is a bonding agent. Epoxy primer: Although it provides a really thin finish, it creates a very strong bond to concrete. People who are about to paint a fiberglass boat are probably wondering . You do not usually need to prime fiberglass before you paint it because it is already smooth. Just spray your next product right over the epoxy with OUT any type of sanding. To prepare a bare metal surface for this primer, clean and degrease the surface with Eastwood Pre Painting Prep which is also available in a 50 State Compliant version called Pre Green Paint Prep . Understand that epoxy primer will not stop or neutralize any rust that has started or is already present. Or you may have a plastic or metal drain cover you want to coat with the epoxy to make the floor look really nice. In general, don't sand with too fine of sand paper before painting. It will work on just about any metal, whether steel, diecast alloys, or others. I have seen an engine in a modified truck painted this way with over 15k miles and the paint has held up fine. Using a garage floor epoxy primer makes the success of this DIY project much more likely. The key to avoiding problems is simply asking why you are priming or sealing in the first place. HECK YES! has a porcelain-hard finish that resists chipping on rolls and push bars. While this may not be necessary, I don't end up with waves in the paint. First, if you are using epoxy primer on bare metal surfaces, it is important that all existing paint and corrosion are properly blasted or stripped off. Often, acrylic primers are used before applying a urethane topcoat. most good bedliners are designed to go on factory fresh paint jobs, ie. Unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with Nason products, I do know that PPG's epoxy primers allow you a 7 day "window" to apply primers,topcoat or what ever else you plan on putting over your epoxy. 4. It is important to confirm with your manufacturer first before doing anything else. Special primers can be used to truly cover the unwanted smells and . SHOULD YOU USE PRIMER BEFORE PAINTING OVER BRIGHT OR PRIMARY COLOURS? If you fail to use a good epoxy primer before applying your finish color paint, the finish paint will probably not last very long, peeling off of the fiberglass long before you think it should. Once the surface has been sanded and cleaned, apply two to three coats of finish. If you want to spray paint metal, sand the surface with fine-grit sandpaper, then apply a coat of spray-on metal primer, holding the can 6 to 8 inches away from the surface as you work. You can check the TDS for the particular epoxy you'll use. This is true of a garage floor, which will take some heavy-duty impact, so will need to be tough. 1. The caveat with this type is that you need to remove the old paint and treat the rust ahead of time. I don't think you got to go to epoxy if you're going to go down a bare metal. Make sure you talk to a garage flooring expert about the best primer to use on your epoxy floor. I would just want to protect those spots. Because this type of primer is so durable, it is the most appropriate for industrial or commercial buildings. First, deal with the cause of the mold and remove it. Then clean with soap and water. Paint primer is also valuable for covering up lower stains. However, for your sort of job it is not critical you paint will get a mechanical not chemical key. Also, because primer is typically less expensive than paint, it makes economic sense to use primer for base coats rather than paint. Also, use a bonding primer whenever topcoating concrete, says Pachade. Epoxy primer is actually able to absorb into the concrete and creates a great grip on the surface of the concrete for painting. Prep the engine before painting by using a solvent to clean all oil and silicone residue. First, you have water-based primers, which are easier to work with and should dry within a maximum of three hours. Epoxy primer is your barrier from what's underneath it, an its your main protection for what's on top of it. You'll use guide coat on top of your build Primer, you can use over reduced red oxide Primer (if you're using gray Primer) or even a way over reduced solid color base coat. This article will help you find the best primer for cabinets by covering the top choices, how to pick the right primer for your cabinets, and the best way to prime your cabinets. You would do this for two reasons: Since they are waterproof, they protect the sheet metal. So in short, Enamel Paints do sometimes need a topcoat or a primer and in some cases even both. Then you are free to go ahead to prime and paint. So I do final blocking with it as well. Yes, you need to prime any type of concrete before painting, otherwise the paint won't adhere as well to the surface. Urethane primers will fill P220 scratches or finer. If you notice that your current paint is falling, then yes, you can use your primer. If you apply filler over the primer, as mentioned, look for a polyester glazing putty, as they are designed to do so. Do not, however, use a primer to cover up mold or mildew on your walls. As I have said many times on this forum, I've been painting cars for well over 40 years and I've yet to use "epoxy primer" except as a sealer. I know Behr has the Premium Plus line that contains the paint and primer in one. You can brush it on, without primer, and it lays out very well. There are several reasons why it is a good idea to apply a masonry primer before paint. There are a couple of reasons to spray the 2k primer now instead of later. The surface is porous when it absorbs water, moisture, oil, odors or stains. Please read the following and then you be the judge. If you wait too long, you will have to use a scuffy pad to rub the surface before applying the paint. Clean up the residue, apply DP? The typical bondo doesn't like to bond to paint/primers. If it has been more than a week, you may have to scuff the primer before applying some fresh paint over it. These coating systems protect the epoxy from ultraviolet light and require proper epoxy surface preparation before you apply the final coating. Cleans the metal quickly and does not heat or warp. I have seen an engine in a modified truck painted this way with over 15k miles and the paint has held up fine. There are a few cases in which you will always need to prime before you paint. A lot of times using both can be a good idea too. A question has come up this week regarding whether you should apply filler first and then epoxy or vice versa. I have heard some people swear by it, some others don't bother with it and claim it's an unnecessary step in the paint process, and to make things even more 'interesting" I have read some people use epoxy primer to seal the job before bc/cc, so what gives now? 6) Paint clearcoat if applicable Epoxy Primer Epoxy primer works slightly differently, gaining adhesion to the metal surface by sticking to it like glue, rather than etching on to the surface. With the stains covered, the color coat is free to do its job of providing beautiful colors instead of covering up stains. After that 7 days you need to scuff that epoxy before appling any more product. Bill Hirsch makes engine enamels in all (majority) of the factory colors most in aerosol and quarts sizes. Epoxy primers are the layer that you will build upon with other . Be sure you understand fully if there is a special topcoat requirement for the primer you use. ------------------. But most people will coat the epoxy with a urethane primer ( 2K ) and do the final blocking with that. Once the imperfections have been filled, apply one to two coats of a high-build primer and then one to two coats of a finish primer. This fully protects the surface from the elements, meaning you can work at your own pace without worrying about rust forming. However, if you're wanting epoxy for . I let mine dry a week or more. An epoxy primer is the foundation of your floor coating system. This means you can hit an area with epoxy primer that's been sanded down to bare metal, repaired with body filler, and then feathered into the original paint. Allow it to dry for at least 10 minutes before adding a second coat of primer. A primer coat prior to painting over epoxy is quite beneficial because it provides a uniform color base and is easier to sand than epoxy resin. One of your guys said i could do that years ago. 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